The Leadership Exchange
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The Leadership Exchange
S3E7: The Art of Leadership Communication with Salvatore Manzi
Salvatore Manzi knows firsthand the paralyzing fear of public speaking. As an introverted, analytical-minded person, his first time on stage ended with his voice literally evaporating mid-presentation. That humbling experience launched him on a 20-year journey studying cognitive psychology and neuroscience to develop frameworks that help leaders communicate with clarity and confidence.
Throughout this illuminating conversation, Salvatore reveals why brilliant people with poor communication skills often struggle while those with average ideas but superior delivery thrive professionally. For new leaders transitioning from individual contributor roles, this disparity becomes especially critical as communication demands increase dramatically.
"We all make a living with our voice, written or verbal," Salvatore emphasizes, highlighting why mastering communication fundamentals is non-negotiable for leadership success. His approach is particularly valuable for data-driven, analytical professionals who must translate complexity into clear, compelling messages for diverse audiences.
The discussion explores practical techniques like expanding vocal range through audiobook mimicry, using specific feedback requests to improve delivery, and implementing the powerful "You Then Me" principle to build rapport before sharing your agenda. Salvatore also unpacks the nuances of communicating across cultural differences, explaining the distinction between high-context cultures where much is implied versus low-context cultures where explicit explanation is expected.
Perhaps most powerfully, Salvatore shares how metaphor and storytelling transform information retention. "Metaphors move minds," he explains, recounting how one tech leader skyrocketed from manager to SVP in just one year by using a simple Prius metaphor to make her technical insights accessible and memorable.
Whether you're a new supervisor leading your first team meeting or an experienced manager presenting to executives, this episode offers invaluable frameworks to help you communicate with greater impact, authenticity, and effectiveness. Salvatore's upcoming book "Clear and Compelling: Communication Strategies for Big Thinkers with Bold Ideas" promises to expand on these insights.
Additional Information about Salvatore and his upcoming book:
Website: Home - Salvatore Manzi
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Hello everyone this is Lupe Munoz and I'm Steve McKeon, and welcome to the Leadership Exchange.
Speaker 1:This morning. We have another guest with us Today we're going to talk a little bit about. We have another guest with us today. We're going to talk a little bit about communication skills, which is something that we think is very powerful when it comes to leaders and their ability to influence others, and I don't know that we could have anyone much better than our guest today, which is Salvatore Manzi.
Speaker 1:Salvatore is a leadership communication coach with over two decades of experience. He's worked with leaders in education, government and business and helps them communicate vision and engage their audience with clarity and confidence. Salvatore's got a degree in business communication and has extensive training in communication psychology and neuroscience. He blends a strategy, science and soul to help his clients lead with authenticity and speak with impact. He's an author of an upcoming book that is titled Clear and Compelling Communication Strategies for Big Thinkers with Bold Ideas. One thing that impressed me a lot, besides everything else that I've talked about with Salvatore, is he has helped clients that have taken the stage on TED Talks, people that have spoken at the United Nations and many, many keynote speaker events. With all that said, welcome to our show, salvatore.
Speaker 3:Thank you, lupe, thank you, steve. It's great to be here and yes, I'm an introverted, analytical-minded person who had overcome the fear of public speaking and the very first time I got up on stage my voice pitched upward until it actually evaporated. And I was just mouthing into the microphone and became so panicked and I was like I'm not going to live with this. So I set out on a course and I studied cognitive psychology and neuroscience and over the last 20 years I've created frameworks and techniques and strategies to help mostly data-driven, analytical, sometimes introverted people speak up in a meeting or give a presentation or put all of that information into some sort of content delivery system so that they can turn complexity into clarity.
Speaker 3:I kind of gave a little bit of a story. My father was a speaker at conferences and he would come home so lit up by it and I was like, oh man, there's got to be something in this. I want to do this. So when I got to college, when I got up on the stages, I had that panic attack, lost my voice and started a deep dive into unpacking. What is this communication thing? How do I overcome whatever this, the way my body betrayed me and over the years I've had the opportunity to work with some pretty high level notable world leaders. But really the wheelhouse is working with teams in tech driven areas because they have to turn that complex data and speak to non data minded folks right. So that's kind of my joy in my wheelhouse and I've been doing it for 20 years now.
Speaker 2:Salvador, thank you for joining us today.
Speaker 2:You know I resonate with a lot of what you described in our initial meeting that we had on prepping for this podcast, because I also felt like I'm introvert I'll just state that right out of the gate and I think a lot have a lot of conversations in my mind as I'm speaking and so I've got to be really careful not to lose the thread right and so my mind sometimes going faster than the words are coming out, it'll present perhaps a stutter or an awkward pause, but I've learned that it's okay, right and just.
Speaker 2:You know you continue to work through if you have to stop and reset. So and kind of learning a little bit about you. And you know, listening to some other podcasts you've done, you speak to that and I think what would be really interesting to our leaders here that are listening today and again, our target audience is really people that are either new to leadership or they're new in their leadership career and you know how, why is it so important to get comfortable with this and what are some of the ways that they can start to get that comfort level if they tend to struggle?
Speaker 3:Right, and I appreciate you calling out the specificity of the independent contributor that's now in a role where they're managing other people and suddenly, ah, I've got to start leading meetings, I've got to start presenting, I've got to start giving updates, I've got to learn how to manage up. Maybe I have to go in front of the executive team and that's next level communication. Right, and whatever got us to that level may not be the thing that gets us in how to succeed. So, learning how to unpack the strategy that we have been using and find new strategies for those new environments and I mean anybody out there that's listening to us I have a ton of resources for these specific situations, but one of the key things and going into that position is learning what leadership style you really gravitate to, what's your go-to.
Speaker 3:Harvard Business Review has an article on the seven leadership types and it's worth going through, see which one you naturally gravitate to, which one is uncomfortable and as you learn to move into other roles, you become more agile and resourceful for different situations. I feel like I could talk about this for a long time, but I'm going to. I'll pause for a second because it looks like Lupe has a question.
Speaker 1:Oh, I always have a question. Salazar, that's a good read, though One of the topics that we talk about is, you know, and I've seen this firsthand, I've seen a more, I'm going to say more talented individual, struggle with communication and presenting their idea and trying to be maybe maybe their presentations around trying to get a decision. So they're, they're, they're trying, they're having a persuasive presentation and being able to communicate that. So I've had someone that's very bright, very, but just like completely dilute what they're trying to get across because of the lack of communication. And then, on the opposite end, I've seen someone that I'll say is average ability but has really great communication skills, and the perception that people can have of those two different people individuals is that like wow, the person that maybe content-wise has average material is able to deliver it incredibly better and they stick out as a more persuasive and even stronger professional. Can you talk a little bit more about that or add sort of the reasoning behind all of that?
Speaker 3:I love what you're bringing up here and it's a reality that we all make a living with our voice, written or verbal. We make a living with our voice, written or verbal, we make a living with our voice. So if we have great ideas but we're not able to communicate them, we're not going to advance, we're not going to move our projects forward. So it's important to elevate our skills, and I think everybody knows somebody who's brilliant one-on-one. But then they get in a different setting and all of a sudden they clam up or they speak in circles and, like for me, I like to say that all communication is contextual. Depends on who you're talking to, what you're talking about and the environment in which you are speaking.
Speaker 3:Every time I'm working with the client, we look at what are the triggers in those different contexts that cause you to show up or shrink back, and typically these are based on something from your past conditioning social, society, organizational or even just internal or experiences. I tried it once. I failed. I don't ever want to do that again. But these two issues are create a series of beliefs that cause the typical person to show up in a context with a particular behavior and then not be able to communicate with the efficacy that they could in another context. So the key is to become more self-aware of what are the triggers like? Where is it that I can't communicate as well? Or what is the topic that I seem to get wrapped around the wheel, or what is the setting I'm great, virtual, I'm horrible, live like. Figure out what are the triggers that tip the scale towards that lack of efficiency and then let's unpack it. Let's find the strategies that are going to work towards moving you into a more agile, resourceful state in that.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that, salvador. Related to that, I know that as you're coaching and helping leaders kind of learn their trade of communication style right, are there techniques, are there certain types of practice that you give them to help facilitate that? Because I think we all recognize, if you can practice, you know maybe it's in front of a mirror, maybe it's in front of a small group you can improve. Front of a small group you can improve. But I think there's beyond that, there's nuances right in how you practice and really kind of listening to yourself at some point in terms of what you're sharing with your audience.
Speaker 3:You're pointing to one of my favorite golden lines, and that is practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent. It's all a matter of what kind of practice you're getting. It's going to determine whether or not you're actually getting better. If you've got a bad grip on your tennis racket and you do a hundred thousand serves, it's not going to improve your serve, it's just going to groove that deeper that you've got the wrong grip on your thing. So the key to that practice is getting feedback, ideally objective feedback, ideally from somebody else.
Speaker 3:My angel says yeah, I can't see the back of my head. I need somebody else to tell me. So I need somebody else to spot how am I coming across? Am I coming across the way I intend to? So a colleague, a supervisor, a direct report, ask them for very specific feedback. Say okay, look, lupe, for this podcast, I'm really working on making sure that I use good vocal inflection. I want you to tell me at the end of this how was my vocal inflection right? Don't come up and say hey, steve, can you tell me how I did? It's too vague and you're going to hear the response oh, you did great, right. But if you give a specific request for feedback. You're going to get that specific feedback and you'll be able to improve.
Speaker 3:Now, steve, you mentioned videoing oneself. I highly recommend it's important to see what you look like, but remember our brains are wired to look for what's wrong. It's the negativity bias. We're looking for danger, we're looking for mistakes, we're looking for errors. So watching yourself, it's going to be a cringe moment for most of us. What I set as a rule for all of my clients is you have to come up with three things you did well before you're allowed to offer any critiques. You have to train your brain to look for the positive first, and that will also help facilitate when you get to the presentation stage. You're training your brain in the right way to prepare for that as well. I'm not sure if I answered the full scope of your question, steve.
Speaker 2:Yes, you did, and obviously I'm sure there's other techniques that people can practice. But I think those are really some good starting points to look at. And it's probably too bad that we're not doing a video recording, because just to share with our audience here Lupe and I are stationary headsets on South Door is not only communicating what should be done, but he's actually showing us virtually here on our podcast what can be done.
Speaker 1:Very engaging method. Yeah, I was going to make that note also, Steve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the voice inflection I think is important too. It's easy to get into that monotone cadence and like for myself, if I'm thinking ahead, I'm not catching it right. So being present, I think, is so critical in delivery of the communication. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:Yes, I love where you're going with this, because number one challenge that speakers have, that fear that comes up, is because we're in our head and not in our body right being able to be presence, to have that presence, the thing that people say, oh, that person has presence. That is when we are in our bodies and we have an embodied voice and we have our mind focused on the right thing. So not getting up in our head. The voice itself to your question is very dynamic and what happens? Breath tends to restrict the vocal cords so that they get a little bit tighter, and that is essentially why I lost my voice. I was so stressed out that my voice got really tight and went way up and out, right.
Speaker 3:So stress is going to restrict your vocal cords. Secondly, if we're not used to practicing the full range of our vocal variety, we're going to get in there and we're just going to go with what's safe. This is what's safe for this meeting. I'm going to tell you the data and this is how I'm going to deliver it and you're going to listen. It becomes monotone. People don't stay engaged to a voice that doesn't change in cadence, pitch and volume and pauses. There needs to be a pause.
Speaker 3:If you just run the whole thing together, people don't have a chance to actually translate and think about it. What I recommend for my clients is practice exaggerating your voice to stretch it, and then, when you get into the actual situation, you've already expanded it a little bit and what I recommend is listen to audio book some audio book that you enjoy and follow the speaker one beat behind. Just repeat their phrases the way they do. One to two minutes a day for a solid week. Just make it a part of your daily commute. I'm going to listen to three minutes of this audio and repeat it to get your voice used to a larger vocal range, and that will help you start using more vocal range when you get into those moments and being more engaging.
Speaker 1:Great advice, salvatore, I was also listening to some of your past podcasts on other shows and one of the things that you were talking about and resonated a lot with me because I had just experienced that I have two leaders currently that report to me and in my effort to try and help support them, I inadvert knew they were very confident speakers.
Speaker 1:When they, when they feel comfortable with the material, like if you're just talking to them, they're very animated, they're very engaging. But as soon as you give them sort of like a non-typical topic, then they really kind of struggle and their personalities don't come through as much as we need them to. And so I proactively thought, okay, I'll give them some structure, some high level talking points, not a script, but some things to think. And it was amazing to me that one of them told me I've never felt so confident about talking about something different until I had this discussion. And then I listened to the episode that you had recorded where you were talking about that after the fact and I was like, okay, that makes sense, because I was like I wonder why it was so comfortable for him. But then when I heard you saying, hey, structure is very useful in being able to help with your communication. So could you speak just a little bit about the psychology behind that or anything you want to add to that?
Speaker 3:Kudos to you and good on to that person for excelling in that space. Really, structure provides freedom. That's what I would say. Structure provides freedom because, as an introvert and Steve, maybe you can relate like you give me a question, you ask me to talk about something. I've got 2000 data points floating in my head, I've got 14 different buckets, I've got three different things that I've already thought about trying before it comes out. So if I have a structure, I can know where to start, I can know when to cut myself off and I can know how to end that.
Speaker 3:I would give the analogy of a bicycle. You can be riding a bicycle on a paved, easy road, flat, all you want to. Or you can take that same bike and go up on a mountain, on a trail and all rugged. The tool is the same. The bike it's how you use it, and so frameworks. The bike, it's how you use it, and so frameworks provide the structure, and in my book there's five key frameworks that I'm offering, the five champion frameworks that are in my book. There's also a series of other books for uncertainty, for whatever. So whatever context you're in, you pull the framework for it and then you make it your own Great advice, salvatore Lupe.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry I missed that presentation because I've seen that, with leads that are coming into a new environment, supervisors coming into a new environment, even managers To myself to that point and having that tool, that framework, is, I think, critical. One of the other things I picked up on a couple podcasts that you've done recently also, salvatore, is the talk or where you've talked about the different cultures, right, the cultural impact on you know you've worked in a lot of places outside of the US, even within the US those microcultures that we have and how important it is to maybe know those before you go into a speaking engagement and then you know how to navigate through them if there's, you know, something awkward does appear to come up.
Speaker 3:And this is important for any new manager out there, because you're not. You may have inherited team, you might be building your team, but it's ultimately going to be diverse and if it's not diverse in the way they appear, there's going to be a lot of intersectionality. So I appreciate that you're bringing this up to that and the goal is to create an inclusive, high-performing team. So how can we do that? And I would offer that in all my travels and all the different cultures I've lived in, I have made more mistakes than I can count, but I always go in with a learning mind and I research to find out what I can before I get there, and then I ask for support. I acknowledge well, hey, I'm not sure if this is the right way, the right time, the right space to do this. So, at a very high level, what I would offer anybody that is navigating a very diverse workforce remote, possibly international is to look into high versus low context society. It's a very high level way of comparing Eastern and Western structures. To simplify it very quickly high context assumes that you understand a lot about it. Low context explains a lot about it, and you can find this in your own organization as well, If you're within the tech group only and you're only talking to tech people, we're going high context. I don't need to explain something. If you're going outside of that, you've got to code switch to low context to explain what you mean with the jargon and things like that.
Speaker 3:But an example high context Italy. If you ask an Italian how do you make pasta, you just get some pasta. You boil some water, let it get to the al dente point that you like, drain it, eat it. If you went to a low context culture, America, say how do you make pasta? You boil eight cups of water. Once is boiling, you add a little bit of salt, you take about one inch diameter of spaghetti, put it in there, stir gently for seven.
Speaker 3:If you get where this is going, high context doesn't. It doesn't give you all the data. They make a a lot of assumptions. Low context does and the difference that you'll see in behaviors. In a high context culture like Japan, are there any questions? Crickets, no one's going to raise their hand. It's impolite. It's a high context. It's assumed that you can see inflections. You'll see somebody in the crowd who will slightly tilt their head or raise their eyebrow just slightly.
Speaker 3:There's just micro movements and you, as a speaker or facilitator or the manager of this new member, need to learn how to gently address that in a way that's not going to shut them down. And the other side of the you know the Americans in the room. They're interrupting you, they're getting their idea and they don't hesitate to ask questions. Push back all that and it's so creating balance within that ecosystem of your team. The easiest way to do that is number one equality among voices. Everybody gets one sentence. Let's go around the room. Everybody gets one sentence. Let's go around the room. Everybody gets one sentence.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite mentors once told me that in a meeting, every voice needs to be heard, but not every voice needs to be heard by everybody. So everybody in that meeting needs to feel like they had a chance to contribute, but not necessarily in front of the whole group. Everybody in that meeting needs to feel like they had a chance to contribute, but not necessarily in front of the whole group. So, learning how to use different structures, such as pairing them up or writing things down, or submitting things into chat or whatever there's a lot of different ways to facilitate, but then you can create inclusion with a very diverse audience. I appreciate this question. I love culture. It's a really fun topic to go down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we've had a chance. Lupin and I do a lot of leadership training in the organizations we're with. Even outside the organization we're with, we'll be asked for advice or even, you know, just small group setting type work. And you know, it's interesting, even in those environments a lot of diversity with on the people that we're talking to and just taking a moment to let them explain their background really creates that comfort level right Now, all of a sudden, we're hearing their voice, they're starting to talk, and then the other thing that you know we've learned is, as maybe we're presenting information, to ask them just to read what we're presenting, to give them some comfort. They don't have to think up anything, they're just really able to say, okay, I can read that Now, hopefully there's not a reading challenge for them, but most cases not and then what we find is that as their voice starts to resonate within the room, over time then they'll start to share their ideas and especially I love the pair and share right, getting it down just to two people where they really can have some comfort in sharing.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, great examples. And really the cultural piece is what I love too, because I just I love learning about different cultures and the nuances of differences. I've had a chance to work all over the world and just found that the sooner you can get to break bread with those folks, the quicker the barriers come down. You got to be willing to try a lot of crazy food sometimes, but I love that side of it. I love learning.
Speaker 1:I love that side of it too.
Speaker 3:Could I double click on what you're saying about getting your voice in and the idea of breaking bread. There's a principle out there called connection before content. If you're facilitating a meeting, especially with a new team, before you get to the agenda there needs to be an opportunity for everybody's voice to come in. It does two things. One, it gets presence in the rooms Everybody's present to everybody else. And the second is for those of us that are more introverted the sooner we break the seal, the more competent we can communicate later on. Because the longer you leave me perseverating in my little head, if I'm 20 minutes in before I've said anything to the meeting, I'm going to stumble over my words because it's the first time this in before I've said anything to the meeting. I'm going to stumble over my words because it's the first time, but it will help me feel more included if I get my voice in at the top.
Speaker 1:Great comment, great point, salvatore, one of the things that we talk about often on this show is psychological safety, especially creating that environment for teams.
Speaker 3:Creating that environment right for teams. The question I have is two part Does clear, authentic communication add to the foundation of psychological safety? And if it is so critical to create a high performing team, they can't do it if they're not feeling psychologically safe to be there To like? Answer your question immediately. We are all human energy barometers, right? You go into a room. You can feel what's happening in the room just to some extent. When a person starts to speak, you pick up a lot more than just their words. You're picking up their energy. So having clear, authentic communication is going to add to psychological safety because they're going to feel and resonate with the groundedness and the clarity with which you are communicating.
Speaker 3:With the groundedness and the clarity with which you are communicating, if you have a manager and you've probably seen it who is just like don't shoot the messenger, but here's what you have to do. Like that's not clear, I don't feel safe. Like so, should I do it? Are you going to have my back if I do it? Or should I not do it and you're not going to? You're going to look the other way Like it's not good?
Speaker 3:There needs to be clear and authentic communication and it takes time to get there and I would offer though I mean, I know that you know this, but I got to just put the caveat it takes more than just communications right. There needs to be the freedom to express oneself naturally and not get shamed or put down, and there needs to be acknowledgement and validation for shares and contributions, and mistakes need to be called out and acknowledged in a way that shows what we learn from it and we celebrate, fail fast and fail far so that we can keep growing. If that's not celebrated and it's kind of hidden, then it's not creating that. So to your point, yes, clear, authentic communication is going to be a baseline necessity for creating psychological safety.
Speaker 2:That's great. Thank you, salvatore. I'm curious just to talk a little bit about your book that's coming out, one very interested to read it myself and also interested to listen to it because Luke and I both like to. We got some drives with our commute, so we do a lot of listening to books as well, so curious if you could share maybe, the date the book will be released and will there be an audio version as well?
Speaker 3:I'd be stretched to do an audio. I see it's happening, okay.
Speaker 1:We'd love to understand, like, what inspired you to do the book right, cause a lot of people do a lot of different things, like executive coaching, whatever, but it takes a whole different level of commitment to really focus on and actually create a book.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thank you, I feel good, I feel seen right now.
Speaker 1:Thank, you, I totally get you, man, I get it it has been a journey.
Speaker 3:It's going on 10 months now and we're done with the copy editing. Hopefully it will be out in the next couple of months. It will be available on Amazon. Clearandcompellingplaybookcom is where you can go now to sign up for the launch. It breaks down my understanding of communication, because there's no book out there for the more analytically minded, the more data driven, the more introverted speaker. There's no guide out there that speaks to how to work with our mind in order to communicate the comfort and ease we feel with data, with non-data people, and it breaks it down into three categories. First, there's the frameworks how to organize your content. Second are techniques and strategies around delivery, but the real meat is then presence. I look like what's your strategy for dealing with all those beliefs and triggers that come up when you show up to speak. So it's those three components and it's going to be available, hopefully in the next couple of months.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely excited to read that book. Talking to you and hearing all of these concepts and some familiar, some I knew, but others maybe not so much. So I love the fact that we're learning so much from you, and I think that's one of the pleasures that we take out of hosting a podcast is we get to meet and learn from so many different, fascinating people. So kudos to you on the book.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you for having me on here. Honestly, serving new managers is such a needed thing and I appreciate the voice that you're giving to all of that a hold of you, your website and the link.
Speaker 2:But I guess, for a new leader coming into the organization or coming into that role, what are some of the key? Maybe things that they should be looking at from an educational standpoint to read, and then, beyond reading, it's the practice. Like you said, a lot of practicing the wrong thing over and over again will deliver a really poor result, but I think you do have to practice for sure to your point, get that feedback and then also, I think you can continually learn in this process, as we've all learned here. So what are some of your go-to recommendations for new leaders out there?
Speaker 3:Thank you, new leaders. As you are starting this journey of having to stand and present to whomever and lead your team in those meetings, I would offer two things. One, don't do it all at once. Don't try every technique. Don't read every book out there and try to do it. Pick one, try it for a day or a week. Try one technique right, whatever it is. Maybe it's working with your voice, maybe it's working with this structure, maybe it's changing the way you use your body, taking up more space. But pick one thing and focus on that and refine it so that you get it. Secondly, I would also tell new managers my number one principle is you then me, you then me.
Speaker 3:Every time I open my mouth, especially as a manager, I need to consider that person's perspective, their hopes, their fears, what's going on in their world, what can I acknowledge about what I know, about what's going on or about what they just said? Before I get to my agenda, it's easy to become transactional and directorial and have people function as soldiers. The true manager is getting to that stage where they're able to acknowledge to that person. This is what I see you're doing. This is where I see you might be having some issues, and this is where I think we might be able to go. Are you open to hear it and then get to your agenda? The Udemy principle opens up dialogue. It deepens rapport. It allows your wisdom to be shared more effectively.
Speaker 1:That would be my number two. Wise words, wise words. Two questions before we wrap up. The first one only because I feel like it's such a critical topic to discuss storytelling. Yeah, how big of a game changer is being great at storytelling? If you could not necessarily specific, but just percentage-wise, what does that represent as far as a leader's ability to be effective in communicating? Is storytelling one of those things that represents 25% of that success? Is it like no, that's like 80% of the success. I don't know if that's a confusing question or not.
Speaker 3:No, it's a very good question, but you're asking an analytical person who's already perseverating. You want a percentage. You want me to get let me go to all my dials, like you sent me into a panic. No, I couldn't put a number on it and I think it's going to be contextual what your line of work is right. If you're in a creative marketing area, probably 80, 90% of it is storytelling You've got to be able to sell that story. If you're in technology or finance or HR, well, hr is probably a lot of story. Anyway, it's going to fluctuate, but how important is it? Huge, huge, because stories create relatability and stories are how the mind works. I mean, I took a deep dive into cognitive psychology and neuroscience and the brain. It processes through the visuals and emotions that we're getting and stories naturally create that. This is why storytellers or people that tell stories, are so easy to remember. What they share is easier to remember.
Speaker 3:My rule of thumb that I offer my clients is this metaphors move minds, metaphors move minds. You can have all of your expert data, but if you just download that data, people walk away and be like that was nice and forget it. Load that data, people walk away and be like that was nice and forget it. If you compare it to a metaphor, an analogy or a story, they're going to take your data and keep processing it for weeks to come. Metaphors move minds. Learn to tell metaphors if you're not familiar with it. Learn to tell metaphors.
Speaker 3:I had a client who was a tech leader and she was not getting hurt. People were talking over her. She would try to make a presentation. No one was listening. People would turn to their phone the minute she started talking. She started using a metaphor of her Prius to explain her data points. People's heads started turning up. Next thing, you know, people are using this metaphor outside of the meetings. Well, that's like the Prius or a gas car. You're trying to put oil in the Prius again. You can't do that. And she created this niche. And she was a rocket ship. She's SVP. She shot up in one year from manager to SVP Because she was able to start communicating her insight in a way that they could capture. Wow, great stories.
Speaker 2:Stories are critical. Yeah, great story and the importance of storytelling. Our last question, Salvatore, is something we ask all of our guests. If you could go back in time to a younger Salvatore, what would be different? What would you have brought forward to this point in time and maybe learned?
Speaker 3:not about me, not about me. I wish I had cared a lot less about what I perceived other people were thinking about me. Right, I walked around with the spotlight effect, which we all have to some degree or another, where we assume people are paying more attention to us than they actually are. If you've ever seen somebody trip and look around to see who's following them, that's the spotlight effect. We think somebody's watching. They're not always watching, but the younger me was constantly attuned to like how I was being perceived by other people and it shut down my ability to be authentically myself, authentically express myself. And when I learned at an older age it's not about me, their reaction, that sour face, their seeming disinterest in what I'm saying has nothing to do with me.
Speaker 3:They just got in a fight with their partner and they're still processing that. They just got a text from their mother in the hospital Like there's who knows what going on in that person's world. It's not about me and if I can, if I could go back to the younger me and I would just say look, all of that nonsense, it's not about you.
Speaker 1:So Excellent Thank you. Great, excellent. Thank you, salvatore, really appreciate what you do first for society, for individuals. We appreciate that. And what you're doing for leaders to help them be better leaders is admirable. We're looking we're both looking forward to your new book, which we will have any links to be able to get a hold of you, to be able to look you up on LinkedIn and and be able to really access the clear and compelling which is the title of the book communication strategies for big thinkers with bold ideas. Looking forward to sharing the knowledge that you have through that book with everyone. Thank you for your time. We appreciate you and, with that said, this is Lupe Munoz.
Speaker 2:And I'm Steve McKeon and our guest Salvatore Manzi. Thank you, salvatore.
Speaker 3:Thank you all and just so you all know you have a voice and it needs to be heard.
Speaker 1:Well said, have a great day. Outro Music.