The Leadership Exchange
Discussions on Real-World Leadership for professionals. We explore several topics about leadership and getting the best from your team to deliver amazing results while creating a great environment for them.
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The Leadership Exchange
S3E2 - Unlocking Potential: Transform Your Team and Organization. Our continued discussion with Ernesto Gomez.
Organizational transformation requires seeing companies as living organisms rather than machines, with leaders who prioritize empowering teams rather than having all the answers themselves.
• Psychological safety creates an environment where innovative ideas can flourish
• Organizations must connect with employees' aspirations beyond just earning a paycheck
• Companies should evaluate how far they need to extend beyond their core competencies
• Great leaders acknowledge they are paid to empower teams to produce answers, not have all the answers themselves
• Building trust requires getting to know your people and creating open channels of communication
• The team pushes leaders up - not the other way around
• Steve Jobs' philosophy: "Don't want to be right, want to get it right"
• Balance action with reflection by regularly stepping back to evaluate progress
• Vulnerability in leadership opens up possibilities rather than limiting them
• Most people discover their purpose rather than designing it - unlike companies that intentionally create theirs
If you're interested in learning more, check out Ernesto's book and consulting practice focused on helping individuals and organizations unlock their potential.
The following are several links to Ernesto's company, profile and book.
Website: https://aspenmindset1.com/
LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ernesto-g%C3%B3mez-arzapalo-8783ab43/
Ernesto’s Book Regrowth on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Regrowth-Organizations-Overcome-Unlocking-Potential/dp/1959009176/
Ernesto’s Book Regrowth from Independent Book Retailers [online and brick and mortar]. https://bookshop.org/p/books/regrowth-how-organizations-can-overcome-stalling-by-unlocking-their-people-s-potential/530c18cc6619dee7
Follow us on Instagram or on Threads @LEADERSHIPEXCHANGEPODCAST. We'd love to hear from you! What topics you'd like us to explore with you? What questions on our topics do you have? Say hello and start the dialogue!
and then you start challenging that a little bit and say you know what if we try this, what if we change our belief, and maybe the thing that you thought it was impossible becomes possible.
Speaker 2:At least that's what has happened to me yeah, yeah, those are excellent points when you think about the psychological safety aspect of that, where you've got to have that environment where those ideas can come forward, really important. Everything that you've touched on here is just the organizational shape at the health right. Organizational health and some of the best current stories that we're seeing in business right now are companies that are able to reinvent their self from what's got them to a certain point of success. They've had to go back and really rethink okay, we've got this talent, Well, how can we reshuffle the talent? And in a lot of organizations that are fixed and have been successful for a while, sharing talent becomes tough, right, they're not as interested to hand over their best programmer or their best engineer or their best leader, from a people standpoint, to another part of the organization to maybe form a new entity.
Speaker 2:And I capture that in some sections of your book where there's that opportunity to really kind of reflect and, you know, are we currently structured correctly? And again it goes back to, you know, the talent acquisition management. It goes back to organizational health and culture. And why don't you walk us through a little bit of that? Because you've got a really good insight there that I found fascinating.
Speaker 1:You know, in the book I lay out four steps. Right, that can be done in a large company or in a small company. The first step for a company to kind of design a journey to transformation. The first step is am I willing to really connect with my people and understand their aspirations, what people want? You cannot unlock potential in your company if you're not really sincerely, genuinely willing to say well, people come here not just to earn a paycheck, people come here for other reasons too, right, to fulfill their dreams, to improve their lives, to grow. So am I really willing to acknowledge that this is something that needs to happen?
Speaker 1:Companies very often, especially if you are public, they say you know the number, it's the most important thing and I don't care for anything else. And that's a short-term view. If you have a long-term view, you have to understand well, if people are so important that that's the element that is going to help me turn around the business, am I willing to acknowledge and play as possible so that they can fulfill also their aspirations. So if you're not willing to do that, that is going to be difficult. So that's the first step. Second step, as a precondition as well, from where I'm right now in the company, the future looks like I'm going to play near to my core, or I need to extend and I need to explore things that I'm not doing currently. Because nowadays, companies, organizations, are challenged all the time and you say you know what. I'm going to need to do something different, because if I keep on doing, you know, on just providing these products, probably there is a price war or the conditions are not there. So I may need to move beyond what I'm good at right now. I don't know if you have noticed this, but many companies, especially large companies, now have a position they call chief growth officer, and this growth officer, what he's trying to do, is figuring out where his growth is going to come from, beyond what you are doing right now.
Speaker 1:Because in material companies, like you know food or you know clothing, I mean, you don't grow that much. So you have to understand how far you want to go, because the organization is like a vessel. If you're going to go tomorrow cross-country, right, you want to pick up to do that job. You don't want a vessel. If you're going to go tomorrow cross-country, right, you want a pickup to do that job. You don't want a Ferrari to go cross-country. And then if you're going to drive within the city, right, you're going to need a very fuel-efficient vehicle because otherwise it's going to be too expensive.
Speaker 1:So think about this as a company, if you really say you know what, in the next five years I'm going to really have to explore things and do things very differently, and it's even scary that I'm going to get in there. But I have to. Well, that means you need to say, well, what kind of a company I need, what kind of organization, what kind of vessel is going to take me there. So you don't have to be really precise In the book. I say well, if you get to the known unknowns, well, at least you have an idea of you don't know exactly how this is going to play, but you have an idea that what can be done to get you there.
Speaker 1:Problem is when you go even beyond and try to get into a place where it's difficult to go, anyway. So, first of all, do you acknowledge that you want to connect with your people? Second, how far am I willing to go? And third, do I see the company as a machine or as a living organism? As a machine or as a living organism? Because if I align these three things that I mentioned to you correctly, then I'm ready for the fourth and final step. I'm going to create a system with the right talent, the right culture and the right mindset that's going to get me into that uncharted territory that I wanted to go. You're really designing a journey for the company.
Speaker 1:The truth is, organizations have rules. Even if you don't like it, things are happening. So you might as well try to figure out what kind of rules are more likely to get you where you want to go In terms of a culture. I was saying, for instance, let's say that you say I want a culture of people very innovative and eliminate risk aversion and things like that, but in reality, you have an incentive system that punishes people for not achieving their goals and you have really tight processes and you have, maybe, a lot of authority in the company.
Speaker 1:Well, it doesn't make any sense. I mean, you have to kind of understand. Well, if I want to be innovative, I need to give people a little bit of slack to fail. Of course, you don't want to bet the house, but there has to be certain things that people can do. Again, this sounds like a lot of high concept ideas, but in the day to day, if somebody makes a mistake and you reprimand that person, maybe you first have to understand. What is it you wanted to do? What did you want to achieve? Tell me a little bit more about what did you learn right, so that it doesn't happen again.
Speaker 2:Instead of just jumping into the teams, experiment within those boundaries and they're going to have some things that don't go right they learn from. They're going to have some things that do go right that the whole organization starts to benefit from. And really when you can set that up, you know and that's kind of the living organism model that you talk about good things are going to happen, innovation is going to come quicker, the whole empowerment of the employee workforce where you know ideas are heard and the trust right. You build that trust because people don't get in trouble for trying things and we share the knowledge when we learn from them. So I really felt that throughout your book you've got snippets of the importance of that and I guess the question I've got now is really, you wrote the book.
Speaker 2:I think we've got a pretty good understanding of why you wrote it and for the, you know how can they take the book and really learn from it and put it into practice? Because they're probably not C-suite, right, they're probably. They might be a small entrepreneur, as you mentioned, but they could be, you know, a new leader in an organization that wants to deliver value and make a difference. How can they use this reference?
Speaker 1:You know one of the things that when you work in companies and you want to get promoted, typically you think that you have to escalate. Right, you're just doing this and going up and up and up. The reality is that you don't escalate, the team pushes you up. That's the truth. I mean, you don't do that by yourself, the team pushes you up. So it makes a lot of sense to empower and to enable the team, because they will be able to push you up and results are going to get known and seen and more than likely, a boss is going to say, wow, I mean, this guy can really lead. Let's see if we can, you know, increase the area of responsibility. So that idea of it's not a hero job but more of a how can I nurture my team so they can push me up? That's the first mental model that you have to have. Second is something that I learned from Steve Jobs have to have. Second is something that I learned from Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was famous because he said he doesn't want to be right, he wanted to get it right. Yeah, great quote. And it's very different, because being right means wow, I'm the guy I know all the answers. Right, but when you're saying you know, I just wanted to get it right. That means that you're willing to hear everybody so that you know what. This is a better idea than the one I thought, and if we use it, more than likely we're going to succeed, and that's going to push me up eventually, right? So this idea of being right or getting it right is something that people really need to understand when you enable a team to work.
Speaker 1:Another thing that I would strongly suggest is that this idea of vulnerability I'm an old timer and it really was difficult for me at first, you know, to open up because I thought I was paid to be the guy with the answers, because I thought I was paid to be the guy with the answers. I thought I was paid to be the guy who knows more than everybody in the room Up until the time that I learned that doesn't really help you achieve a lot. So what if you change that and say you know what? I'm not the guy here who has to have the answers, but I'm the guy who needs to empower these teams to produce the answers that we all need? So you change and then you are open. You're not.
Speaker 1:You know, we were talking about the ego. You have to have a certain ego, but not really larger than necessary ego. And also, I really think that it is important to create trust in teams. You must be willing to get to know your people. There is also this idea that you know what bosses don't really mix a lot with their employees. Bosses need to. You need to draw a line and to a certain extent that may be true. But to really create trust you have to open up channels of communication and sometimes that means I have to get close to my team and understand where they're coming from. So again, opening up that space to get to know your people, I think is really important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we couldn't have said it any better.
Speaker 3:An old mentor of mine told me that's very similar around. Being a good leader in the professional world is really around the difference between the type of parent that wants to be a good parent or your best friend right, maybe not the best friend, but the parent and some of the desires you want as a parent. I think Simon Sinek said that those are some of the things that, as parents, we want to have. The team that we're part of have more opportunities than we have. Sometimes we have to coach them, sometimes we have to hold them accountable and whatever that may look like, but in the end, it's with that same sort of affection that a parent has for their kids.
Speaker 1:Believe me, I know that this sounds like a touchy-feely, but you have to create that environment and at the same time, you can be tough. I mean this tough love idea, right? I mean you have your ideals, you have your goals and you are committed to do that. You can be tough and at the same time, you can create a space where people feel appreciated and valued. I really think that negative reinforcement works in crisis, but when you are just punishing, punishing, punishing, people resent that in the long run. So you have to find a balance. Sometimes, yes, you have to, you know, call something to the attention of a person, but at the same time, I believe that we humans thrive when we receive positive reinforcement and not negative reinforcement.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, and I think leader as a coach, as you pointed out just a minute ago, is really part of that. No matter what level in the organization that you're leading teams, it really needs to be that self-reflection inward looking, not just upward, looking right and recognizing that your role is really to build that team, build their capabilities, and if you can do that, good things are going to happen. The organization starts to elevate and your team starts to elevate, and I think that speaks well, and it's easy, especially for those of us with the kind of engineering background and mindset, to just get stuck into that. We're going to simplify and optimize everything, which is important, but it's not as important as the blend or the balance of the people side of it as well, and so I really found that to be a big part of the book and what I've taken away from it.
Speaker 1:A couple of ideas to complement what we have been discussing. First, you were talking about engineers, and this happens all the time. You know we are very task focused. You know you get into the task and even this idea of being, you know, biased for action, you just get into performing, but at some point in time you have to stop a little bit and take a step back and try to see the whole thing as much as you possibly can. So you have to perform on the micro level, yes, but also at some point in time, take a step back and say, well, is this really helping me achieve what I wanted or not? Because oftentimes we specialize in trying to do very well a thing that is not going to lead us anywhere. So you have to really at some point say do I pivot or not? You know what is that I have to do? And then this idea of balancing action with thinking. Yes, we have to be biased for action, but for smart action I've found that sometimes it's just when you don't have information.
Speaker 1:It's valuable to jump into the action just to gather new things and ideas, but take time to reflect. I really like this idea of once a week, once a month. Am I really, you know, is this helping me or not? You know what I have learned about this and what I need to change. You know, to become better.
Speaker 1:These are things that normally in a frantic environment in companies are not really valued, but I found that just spending a little bit of time, you know, removing yourself from the micro, trying to see a little bit more of the big picture and also reflect on am I really achieving what I want to achieve or not, really helps you perform a lot better. And in companies, this is not something that is deliberately taught, but I really think that in teams at least, leaders have to encourage their employees to every now and then question is this really into the shoes of another part of the organization from that leader's perspective and do the same thing right, kind of stop and just see where they've gone, that journey that they've been on and what I found.
Speaker 2:When I do that, I start to really connect the parts of the organization that I'm responsible to lead in, maybe looking a little differently at something. And so I think, in addition to that, that self-reflection you need to do within your own team, your own group, finding that that peer in the organization that you can also move over and take a look at it from from their perspective. Sometimes it's just getting feedback from them, but sometimes it's really spending some quality time on, you know, on the ground with that organization, really learning, you know what they do, and it seems like if you can master that activity in a way that you can share those learnings with your team and then, you know, even get your team involved, can really help organizations evolve and grow. So I love that part of the conversation that you just brought up.
Speaker 3:I do want to end with a question around what advice would you give yourself, Ernesto, if you could go back in time?
Speaker 1:I've been thinking a lot about this because I've been moving in places, countries, organizations, and I worry a lot. I'm a big worrier and I think that the advice that I would give myself if I were 20 years younger is I mean, it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay, you know, just do your best. You can only go so far. I mean your God-given talents, whatever. Do your best, don't really shortcut yourself. I mean really, whatever, do your best, don't really shortcut yourself. I mean really really try to do your best and it's going to be okay, because sometimes we all aspire to be these larger-than-life individuals, but when you have the number of years that I have, you notice that there are things more important than that. So don't worry, it's going to be okay. That's what I would say to me.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Ernesto, for that.
Speaker 2:Steve. Yeah, thank you. Lupe and Ernesto. Just to kind of wind down with my last question what's next for Ernesto? Because this is a great, great book. Is there another book? What are you doing with your consulting practice? I know our listeners will be interested to understand that a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Well, what I'm doing right now is based on what I've been doing for the last 40 years. I'm trying to help individuals and organizations to unlock their potential. There is a lot of energy, dormant energy within the organizations that is just waiting to be tapped. I would love to help organizations that want to transform, that really aspire to become better, but also I would love to help individuals that feel stuck and that you say I'm stagnant, I'm not getting anywhere. What should I do? And that you know. You say you know I'm stagnant, I'm not getting anywhere. What should I do? My consulting job right now is, or I'm developing programs to do this. I'm helping organizations to achieve this. It doesn't have to be, you know, a multinational company. It can be medium, whatever, small companies as well. So that's what I want to do, and also in writing.
Speaker 1:I'm also thinking about my next book already, also in writing. I'm also thinking about my next book already, because if you think about what makes a person achieve or rise to her or his potential, it always plays along the lines of I have some essential qualities, things that I know I can do well, that if I play using that strength, I will achieve more. I know I can achieve more. So I would like to explore how that's possible. You know what is the gateway to connect? It doesn't have to be your passion, your purpose. I don't know if we mentioned this last time we talked.
Speaker 1:Oftentimes I coach executives 40 years old 50 years old, and you will be surprised how many ask me you know, how can I find my purpose, how can I find what I want to do with my life At 50 years old? If you know what your passion is, go and run with the ball, I mean, that's fine. But 90% of people do not really know that. That's what I found. Just a small amount of people understand that very well. You know what you like and you just do your best. So I would love to find a way to connect with that in a way that is not difficult for people to embrace Again this idea of purpose and passion.
Speaker 1:Companies design purpose. Right, you set up to say this is the purpose of the company. You decide it People us. We discover our purpose, and it's very different Because to discover you have to you know, look within. So I would love to write something about that, what I can do. But that's my goal, but I'm going to wait a couple of years, because to write this book it took me five years from the. You know how I conceived it and then wrote it, so I'm going to wait a little bit.
Speaker 2:How I conceived it and then wrote it, so I'm going to wait a little bit. There's so much in your book too. I mean we could have literally did a podcast on each chapter, ernesto. So thank you again for joining us on the Leadership Exchange, and I'm very honored to have you here. I've learned a lot, not just about you, but just some things that were very, I would say, eye-opening or connected the dots for me in the book and what you presented, so it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:No, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 3:It's been a pleasure, as we have spent a lot of time talking here, but so much more talking to do. My hope is that and I'm pretty sure Steve's on board my hope is that sometime in the future you will come and see us again. Sure we can use another topic of your book or another topic in general around leadership and organizational transformation. For now, it's been a pleasure. We will have all of the information related to Ernesto's book, to his organization and to him in our notes for the podcast for those of you that are interested, and then we will also ask you to please reach out to us if you have any questions or feedback for us on Leadership Exchange, on threads and also Instagram. With that said, this is Lupe Munoz.
Speaker 2:And I'm Steve McKeon. And thank you for joining us, Ernesto, on the Leadership Exchange.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, guys. We'll see you next time.